Wednesday, September 28, 2011

Gagner's Injury

Sam Gagner's injury has been described as a "high ankle sprain" and the timeline for return is somewhere between one week and eternity.

Gagner himself says it is a low grade sprain and coach Renney says it is week to week. I doubt there will be the urgency of past years since the club actually has some veteran depth (Horcoff, Belanger) along with phenoms RNH and Anton Lander.

One never knows what goes on in the Oiler braintrust, but a guess at the C depth chart currently might look like this:
  1. C Sam Gagner (injured)
  2. C Shawn Horcoff
  3. C Eric Belanger
  4. C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  5. C Gilbert Brule
  6. C Anton Lander
  7. C Ryan O'Marra
It could mean that Brule lives to fight another day or that Lander stays until Gagner is back and ready. Either way, I believe we're beyond wondering if RNH makes the cut.

He's in. 9 games at least, but who are we kidding? The kid is home.

57 comments:

  1. Lowetide, was I hallucinating when I saw Gagner looking like a man out there, instead of a major junior?

    I swear I saw a real NHL hockey player, before the injury.

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  2. Was at the game last night and after watching him last night i believe (like you) Hopkins is here to stay.
    With Hopkins in the top 2 lines and if the Horcoff, Hemsky, Smyth line picks up where they last left off, I cannot see anyplace for Gagner except 3rd line with the Swedes and if I remember correctly that did not go over that great last year.
    Where do you see him?

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  3. Yeah, Gagner looked good. The extra footspeed was so obvious and what used to hold him back.

    Gagner will be a solid 2nd line center for many years to come!

    And RNH is already a God to me.

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  4. Maybe Brule will find his game and the team will get a good trade offer. RNH seems to be putting a lot of distance between himself and Lander at this point. Some further AHL seasoning and time to adjust to North America are probably necessary for Lander.

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  5. What's that they say about preseason hockey? Don't fall in love with a hockey player in September, he'll break your heart in October. RNH sure looks like the real deal though

    slums... where the oilers play hockey

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  6. Good thing Hemsky said he is going to shoot more.
    I was worried RNH wouldn't even bury that give me. just a brutal shooter.

    Hemsky 2.0 maybe 20 goals and 40-50 assists.

    After hearing a sports physiologist say RNH is a young man with no facial hair.

    he is a late bloomer and will get his mass from age 20-24. You cannot force the weight on him.

    RNH with Hall and Eberle will work.

    This year did not think putting Smyth, Horc, Hemmer was a last resort.

    Gus:
    Lander has not done to bad when playing with NHL players.

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  7. Didn't get a chance to see 'The Nuge' play last night. Apparently he made a nice pass and that's good enough to punch his ticket to the dance? Seems a little saw him goodish! Possibly Gagner's injury is fortuitous as the club can really trial RNH with first line minutes over his 9 game audition without hard feelings on Samwise's part.

    Speaking of 'saw him good' vs. advanced stats, had a chance to take in Moneyball last night and found it to be a very interesting movie. Cool to see how this debate is really taking over sports of all stripes. Is is just me or does Brad Pitt look nothing like Billy Beane?

    Romen - what Cleopatra yelled from the back of the boat.

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  8. Come on Rickibear the scouts rave about RNHs quick release and accurate shot.
    In the preseason I have not seen anything to change that view.Did you watch him a lot in junior?

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  9. Those that want or expect Horc to centre our #1 line are setting themselves up for disappointment. He can fill in when required no doubt, but I don't see that as his position on the team any longer.

    We have two offensive soft minutes guys (Gags and RNH - this year anyways) and a couple of crafty vets to take those important draws and eat those tough minutes up.

    So long as we don't confuse Horcoff as an offensive leader on this team, all is well.

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  10. Lee: he actually has made several nice passes throughout the preseason, but the one that set up the first goal to Hall was simply excellent. TSN and the Oilers website have clips if you want to see for yourself.

    RNH has done very well during the preseason in all four games. We'll see what he's like against full NHL competition on his 9 game (minimum) tryout.

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  11. Romen - what Cleopatra yelled from the back of the boat.

    I think she yelled it from the bedroom too.

    My ideal forward set have changed a bit (I think 4 and 94 could swap depending on which D pairs they are facing)

    94-89-83
    4-93-14
    91-10-23
    55-20-56

    That's a 4th line you can give 10-12 minutes a night to.

    With 89 on the shelf, I put 10 in his spot and 57 in his for the all swede line.

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  12. AHL Barons tweets...

    Former OKCBarons forward Colin McDonald on waivers to head to Wilkes/Scranton Penguins, if he isn't claimed

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  13. OMG!!

    JFJ is on waivers! don't they know that teams are gonna line up to claim him?! Stupid Ducks...

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  15. There's got to be a rule against waiving a suspended player. If a player doesn't have to serve his suspension on the team he "earned" it on, that's one *enormous* loophole in the rules. You could hire someone to take out an opposition's star, they get suspended and you waive them.

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  16. Having RNH stick around is not a problem for the team. There is not a competition for roster spot between him and Gagner (not this year or next either). I think this means Brule gets a few games to show what he's got before he gets traded or waived to OKC. The sprain is good news for roster flexibility.

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  17. TSN reported that Nuge was only 3/12 at the faceoff dot. That will hamper him in time. Get this boy out there with Belanger and Horcoff taking 20 minutes of draws every practice!!

    payes - What Lombardi will finally have to do.

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  19. I think I'm prepared to say that Gagner is expendable. I would like to see him packaged with Hemsky for a true #1 D-man and a good prospect. Omark can fill in for Hemsky albeit at slightly lesser capacity. Harti can take Omarks spot on third line. It would look like this:

    Hall-RNH-Ebs

    Smyth-Horcoff-Omark

    Harti-Belanger-MPS

    (Jones/Hordichuk)-Lander-(Eager/Petrell)

    #1D-Whitney
    Gilbert-Barker
    Smid-Peckham
    Sutton

    DD
    Rehab

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  20. I was worried RNH wouldn't even bury that give me. just a brutal shooter.

    Oilers' brass were talking about how pleasantly surprised they have been by his quick release and shooting accuracy. When I talked to Tyler Bunz about the challenges of facing RNH that was the first thing he mentioned.

    But hey, statistics rule. Buddy had a scoring slump last November, ergo he sucks as a goal scorer forever and ever, amen.

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  21. Wait, are we piling on RNH now? I missed the memo. Did we trade Gilbert and Gagner?

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  22. I think this is just some morning Oilogosphere-spasm.

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  23. There's got to be a rule against waiving a suspended player. If a player doesn't have to serve his suspension on the team he "earned" it on, that's one *enormous* loophole in the rules. You could hire someone to take out an opposition's star, they get suspended and you waive them.

    Yeah, it sucks for JFJ too. He is on waivers and has to hope that someone will pick him up and have him sit 5 regular season games to serve the suspension. Unless the suspension can be served in the AHL, this may have effectively ended what little chance he had of having an NHL career.

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  24. I think this is just some morning Oilogosphere-spasm.

    Nah, just Ricki having trouble reconciling his "bear"ish predictions on the Nuge with reality.

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  25. rickibear's is just butthurt that The Nuge is living up to the expectations of being taken 1st overall. He's a talented kid and I am happy to have him on our side, let Ebs and Hall score the goals.

    I will be thrilled if RNH delivers a 13G 26A type season.

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  26. I can see both Smyth and Horcoff taking on a 3rd line role as the season progresses.

    When the 'youth' is struggling, no doubt they can both step up in a more offensive role, but I don't think its going to take long to determine that:

    a) MPS is a top 6 forward on this team (and as a result Smyth is not).
    b) Horc's value on this team is as a veteran leader and defensive specialist - NOT centering a top line.

    If you place Belanger on the right wing... there is your solid veteran 3rd line late in the game.

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  27. I am pretty sure he can serve the suspension in the AHL. As per the theory of 'taking out the other teams star'. The more effective way would be to hire some ECHL goon who can skate to do so and then for him to retire on his NHL earnings. The barriers to doing so are the informal rules of the game (your repuation as coach/GM) and the likilhood that the commissioner would punish you for doing so - likely by taking away 3 first round picks or something of the sort.

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  28. Bendelson: I can see what you're getting at, and I agree for the most part. Important thing that needs to be mentioned is that, contrary to the traditional theory that there's a "gap" between the second and third lines in terms of skill - the drop-off is really between lines 3 and 4. In other words - most good teams have three solid lines that can contribute significant offense, with at least two of those capable of taking on tough matchups.

    So if Smyth/Horcoff end up as 2/3rds of the "3rd" line, I'd say that speaks pretty positively towards the makeup of the Oilers forward corps.

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  29. HBomb: agreed. If and when they end up on our third line that speaks to the impressive high end talent in the top 6. Nice problem to have.

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  30. I am pretty sure he can serve the suspension in the AHL

    Wasn't this the same situation for Steve Downie a few years back?

    During the preseason, he hit Dean McAmmond, was given a big suspension, but was sent down to the AHL before the season started. I think the AHL did suspend him as well, but I thought he had to be recalled and then sit out 20 games before he could play again.

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  31. @HBomb: Are you saying that Horcoff would be a good Third Line Centre?

    (Ducking and running as Traktor comes out of woodwork to *spard* with HBomb.)

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  33. Come on Rickibear the scouts rave about RNHs quick release and accurate shot.

    But hey, statistics rule. Buddy had a scoring slump last November, ergo he sucks as a goal scorer forever and ever, amen.


    Ken and Bruce:
    RNH at Summer prospects. when asked what he noticed in camp!

    He responded my Shot. He needs to improve it for this level.

    I will take him over the scouts.

    Krvin and Steve: Ryan looks like you have stomach pain.
    RNH: No I don't!
    Kevin and Steve together:
    No! No! I we think you do!

    As for hopkins! i wanted him to go back to concentrate on that portion of his game. (not release) drive to the net and power positioning versus his peers.

    First forward taken!
    Would that be scoring and release like
    Hall 2010
    Tavares 2009
    Stamkos 2008
    kane 2007
    Staal, Toews, Kessel 2006
    Crosby, Ryan 2005
    Ovechkin, Malikin 2004
    Staal, Horton 2003
    Nash 2002
    Kovalchuk 2001
    heatley, Gaborik 2000
    Stefan, D. sedin 1999
    Lecavalier 1998
    Thorton, Marleau 1997

    Ever seen Sesame street:
    Some of these things are not like the others.
    RNH, Stefan, Thorton. two got run out of town. one is just starting his career.
    But he Ken and Bruce: you are telling me he is going to be the best goal scorer in this draft.

    Cause if you tell me Good assist players are just as valuable: lets look at the best from each draft year.
    Tavares, Duschene, Oreily 2009
    Stamkos, Bailey, Ennis 2008
    Kane, Gagner, Voracek 2007
    Backstrom, Toews, Kessel 2006
    Crosby, Kopitar, Cogliano 2005
    Ovechkin, Malkin, Zajac, Krejci, Wolski 2004
    Getzlaf, Staal, Bergeron, Perry 2003
    Nash, Bouchard, Stoll, Semin, Stajan 2002
    Kovalchuk, Speeza, Hemsky, Roy, Weiss 2001

    So what can we draw from this group of elite set-up men. If you do not score goals:
    1.there is talk about what is wrong with you. Bailey, Gagner, Backstrom, Speeza, Hemsky, Weiss.
    2.good chance you will be run out of town. Cogliano, Wolski Stoll, Stajan.

    getting and preventing GOALS win games.

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  34. rickibear's is just butthurt that The Nuge is living up to the expectations of being taken 1st overall. He's a talented kid and I am happy to have him on our side,

    Cause elite set-up men like: Bailey, Gagner, Backstrom, Cogliano,Zajac, Krejci, Wolski, Stoll, Stajan, Hemsky, Weiss. are worth a 1st pick over, Ovechkin.......Man i can't even finish this i am laughing so hard. Did you guys all take A HF clown pill today! LOL!

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  35. Re: NHL suspensions and the AHL

    A player who is under suspension by the NHL is automatically under suspension by the AHL, pending a review by the AHL president.

    However, a player who is given a suspension by the NHL must serve that suspension as part of a 23 man NHL roster.

    In other words, whether guys like JFJ or Sestito clear waivers or are claimed, and regardless of whether or not the AHL chooses to suspend them as well, they will need to be called up and put on their respective team's 23 man roster for the duration of their suspensions before they can play another NHL game.

    This all went around when Downie hit McAmmond in the preseason a few years back, then was sent to the AHL before the season started. He was subsequently suspended by the AHL as well, but still had to serve his suspension once he was called up.

    Also, don't forget that if a player retires under suspension from the NHL, they are NOT eligible for player pensions or assistance from the NHLPA. This came to light when Theo Fleury "tried out" for the Flames in 2009.

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  36. Reading about that Hopkins kid sure is exciting!

    For more exciting reading, I suggest a trip through the archives.
    Read about the first training camp for Gagner & Cogliano.

    Don't forget to wear your shades.

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  37. rickybear - are you quoting people or are you arguing with yourself.

    italics are easy - take 10 seconds and google HTML italics.

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  38. Don't forget to wear your shades.

    Its over he won't make it up for the ten count!

    Really though I want him to be able to turn on the scoring skill like a switch.
    I am sure a young man who cannot drive a golf ball well and loves video games can do just that.

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  39. Bookie I am sorry! the quotes are obvious from previous.
    but i will go back to italics

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  40. I don't agree with rickibear at all. Just ignorance is coming out of his keyboard.

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  41. Those who can shoot, shoot... Those who can't, pass.

    RNH is a bust.

    House on fire! House on fire!

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  43. Teubert shipped out to OKC per his twitter.

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  44. Cause elite set-up men like: Bailey, Gagner, Backstrom, Cogliano,Zajac, Krejci, Wolski, Stoll, Stajan, Hemsky, Weiss. are worth a 1st pick over, Ovechkin

    I had no idea Ovechkin was available. My face must be red.

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  45. And here I was hoping the Oilers would draft Crosby. I guess rikibear is right though. They should have picked Ovechkin instead of Nugent-Hopkins.

    Whatever were they thinking.

    Other players that Ovechkin should have been picked instead of include Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, and Hall.

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  46. Ricki,

    You have to take what the draft offers you. Obviously that differs from year to year.

    It's obvious you prefer an elite goal-scorer to an elite playmaker. That's perfectly fine, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who would agree.

    However, one must often choose the one with the most skill, when there isn't a clearcut Ovechkin available.

    Neither Landeskog or Larsson displayed the qualities you desire either. Landeskog had a lot of goals, but the type he scored are of the Ryan Smyth variety not the Selanne/Hull sniper type.

    And I think you are doing RNH a bit of a disfavour by excluding prior years where he did display excellent goal scoring skills. We have to take into account his role and the team's composition too.

    He had the most talent of anyone available. He was the right pick.

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  47. Other players that Ovechkin should have been picked instead of include Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, and Hall.

    Two Hall's would be pretty special.

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  48. Douglas McLachlan said...
    "TSN reported that Nuge was only 3/12 at the faceoff dot."
    I call BS. I didn't count but I saw him win 3 in the third alone. someone must have the proper #'s...

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  49. I think she yelled it from the bedroom too.

    From what I've read, they didn't make it to the bedroom in the first instance. She rolled out of a carpet and was deflowered practically before she landed on the Egyptian cobblestone. Anyway, that was the version of the story that stuck in my mind and I see no reason to improve it.

    If we keep RNH as the omens portend, fasten your seatbelts for line combination turbulence, the situation is going to be fluid. MacT knew how different line combinations available to him were exploited by other teams, but he rarely divulged his views on this in the post game scrum, thus we arrived at the Magic Eight Ball consensus.

    Stubborn in some ways, perhaps a little out of touch with the youngest generation, but definitely no fool. MacT practiced a very sharp feedback loop between showing up ready to play on a consistent basis and having any clue at all about your linemates that night. It snaps the players to attention during the Idles of March, but runs the risk of going to the well once too often. Pumping the well hard is how the Oilers beat Colorado; MacT reprised this formula in 2006 against Detroit and SJ. The regular season is too long (and recurs too, uh, regularly) to make this the cornerstone of your coaching strategy; I do blame him for falling into that rabbit hole, even if with many of those teams he had few viable alternatives.

    Neither is Renney foolish enough to run RNH+Hall+Eberle until they achieve karmic union, despite the adulation available in the blogosphere from the Muskateer sect.

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  50. So what's the plan this year? Smyth / Horc / Hemsky take the own zone faceoff, push it into the other end, get a whistle, and then shift off for Hall & friends?

    It makes sense, but the counting numbers for the vets are going to suffer accordingly.

    Sestrica: Tim Sestito's hot younger sister.

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  51. However, one must often choose the one with the most skill, when there isn't a clearcut Ovechkin available.

    Draft management: No elite goal scorer. no #1 pick. top 3 set-up men can be found in the 20's and 40's.

    As i went through the list. An elite goal scorer with elite set -up man combo is good desired. you look at the top 10 there is a special set-up man.
    They get best results when playing with that elite set-up.

    Hall-RNH-Eberle might be a 90 goal line. I almost expect it!
    40-20-30

    Plus hemsky says he is going to shoot more. 25-30 goals???????

    RNH assist guys do not get the love and I do not want a percieved bust for #1.

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  52. I think the fact that RNH does have the cluster of young talent around him is going to be his saving grace from bust status if he indeed can not find a way to score goals.

    What would his camp have looked like if he didn't have Hall and Eberle around?

    ...And I'd be pretty happy with a 20 goal rookie season, myself. Stamkos had 23, Kane 21, Tavares 24.

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  53. That's barely even a competent AHL lineup up the middle. An injured mediocrity, an over-the-hill plug and a bunch of kids. What with the taped-together D and the non-existent goaltending, I'd set the O/U on "losing all hope" at Nov. 11.

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  54. And I'd be pretty happy with a 20 goal rookie

    I am thinking at age 22. this year 12-14.

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