This is Tobias Rieder. The young man was one of 9 players cut by the Oilers today as they prepare for the pre-season schedule. This time last season the club cut 20 players (story is here) but with a doubleheader tomorrow night coach Renney probably wanted to see a few more kids before sending them away later in the week.
Rieder was sent back to junior along with Martin Gernat and Kristians Pelss. Five players were released outright: Chase Schaber (cut the same time last season), Brett Ferguson, Tyler Schmidt, Colin Smith and Wes Vannieuwenhuizen. Toni Rajala was sent back to Finland and based on performance I'd suggest he was the most disappointing player in camp.
Today's winner? David Musil. He's one of two (RNH the other) kids from the 2011 Entry Draft to survive the first cuts. He may get a game tomorrow night as part of the doubleheader. Good for him.
Is ther two games tommorrow? I live in NorthBattleford and have tickets to the 7 o'clock game. I am curious to know if there is another.
ReplyDeletetrav: Yeah, there's one in EDM too. Both have the same start times, don't have the lineups out yet.
ReplyDeleteI used to buy LP's and 45's in North Battleford. They had a main street that was a dead end and maybe it was a Woodward's downtown that had records.
That was maybe 35 years ago, I think I bought the first Blackmore's Rainbow album there. It had Greensleeves on it.
I used to be in North Battleford 4 times a year (just north actually, in Hatherleigh) when my Baba and Gido were alive.
ReplyDeleteSo is Rajala being assigned to Finland free up a contract on the list of 50?
If so, that's a good thing (see last thread)
WG: No. The only slide risks are RNH and Marincin. Capgeek covers all of this info here (there's a little definition thingy at the top that explains slide risk).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.capgeek.com/reserve_lists.php?team_id=1&year_id=2011
LT: The main street hasn't gotten any more excitng than how you just described it.lol I just read on the nation about the two games.I guess I should have looked before asking.Anyways it will be nice to see a live game it's been awhile. Whats your opinion on the doughty situation. I know its not Oiler related but I can't help but think how good he would look in blue and orange.
ReplyDeletere: Doughty. I think it's a battle the LAK should have solved by now and it'll cost them. Doughty will show up and struggle all year once signed and they'll pay the money anyway.
ReplyDeleteDamn terrible situation. Oilers used to trade these fellows that's no better either.
Sometimes--and only sometimes--a player is good enough to demand and then get what he wants. I suspect Doughty is such a player.
LT/Trav: the other problem for Doughty is that he's so early into his RFA years. It's not like Weber, who's about to hit his UFA years. Doughty's got several more years before that so if the Kings hold firm, he can't do a lot.
ReplyDeleteHe also can't go to any other team because his prospective salary is so high making an offer sheet all but impossible. No one's going to trade LA the required amount of young talent to acquire him either.
This stays deadlocked until Doughty caves I think.
Wow, everyone is sharing their stories of North Battleford. Ok, I guess I will as well.
ReplyDeleteOne time I was driving cross country from Edmonton and I stopped and got a coffee and bagel at the Tim Hortons in North Battleford. It was just great.
I hope Lombardi goes hard boiled on Doughty and makes him sit. I understand and appreciate the rights of a player to not sign a contract, but I equally understand and appreciate the right of a GM to do the same.
ReplyDeleteCactus - some of that probably depends on how the Kings do without him. If they really struggle, there will be a lot of pressure on Lombardi to cave.
ReplyDeletebookie: I don't know how anyone can pick a side without knowing the details. It's possible the LAK are forcing him to sign a long term deal when the player would like lesser term.
ReplyDeleteWe've heard one side of the story. Dangerous to jump to conclusions in these circumstances.
So Lombardi says he loses $25,000 / day for every day of camp missed, and it sounds like they're about $200k apart. Simple math says eight days and they're back to even anyway. Sign the contract young man.
ReplyDeleteTrav77 - please give us a report on the game in Stoon.
Martine looks great in fushia.
Hear an interview a short while ago with Pierre LeBrun.
ReplyDeleteHe thinks Anshutz has told Lombardi to hold the line at $6.8M.
Also heard that Doughty is skating with the Kitchener Rangers and, when asked today, he said the dispute was NOT about money but he wouldn't say what the problem is.
I expect, as others have, it's term.
Meehan wants to go short so Doughty can cash in in his UFA years.
Have read that Meehan and Lombardi have had issues in the past, not a lot of love lost there.
ReplyDeleteIts just business but if Doughty becomes what a lot of folks think he's going to become then Lombardi is playing with fire. Kings have a nice looking core but they're not winning anything without him and if the well gets poisoned then they'll lose a nice talent.
Oh well, fuck them anyhow.
I've never been to North Battleford. Never been to Saskatchewan actually.
he said the dispute was NOT about money but he wouldn't say what the problem is.
ReplyDeleteI expect, as others have, it's term.
Lombardi's line in the sand is Doughty first 2 years of UFA years.
Doughty wants to give up 0 UFA years.
So he sits.
I agree with Doughty. He is under no obligation to give up UFA years.
There is no question that 6.8 will be much less than he can get on the open market in 15/16 when he can be a UFA.
Nice reward for Musil. I hope he makes it to Sunday, I'd love to see him live. With Marincin, if I had my druthers. Sure hope Lander plays in Calgary too.
ReplyDeleteI think both Rieder and Gernat showed well considering their draft position, they have nothing to be ashamed about. Neither do the try-outers. They laid it all out on the table and are merely victims of the numbers game.
And LT, you have to be right on Rajala. He should've been at least at Cornet's level in the rookie sessions, to be considered to be taking steps forward. It's to be expected I suppose. Shouldn't get Omark lucky twice so close together. That'd be greedy.
Tell me they aleady have Martindale billeted at Serdachny's house and are preparing to clear contract space.
Ha. What if the whole Doughty thing is a Hollywood story, drummed up to give Doughty a few extra days off before he has to report to camp. Seems harmless enough to not be a conspiracy theory... unless of course he does struggle once he finally signs. Wouldn't be the first kid to struggle under the weight of a new deal. But most 21 year d-men aren't at the point in their careers where they can make these sorts of salary demands and be taken seriously either.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: that's the same thing I heard on the Doughty front. Lombardi essentially wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to hold the line with Doughty by only paying him $6.8M so that he doesn't exceed Kopitar's contract. However, he also wants Doughty to give up at least 2 UFA years at what would probably amount to a discount for the Kings.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading somewhere that there are certain conditions that Doughty could meet in a short contract (maybe as little as 1 year) after which, he'd be eligible for arbitration. If true, maybe he can take a one year deal at something like $1.5M just to get by. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact details.
Stefan: given the excessive public acrimony, there's no way this is a play by either party. Some reputations have been seriously damaged by this affair.
It's interesting that Kopitar is their line in the sand. I remember way back when, the Bruins (Sinden) had an unwritten rule that no one was paid more than Ray Bourque. Now he was their Captain, their longest tenured and best player, so that made sense to me. Kopitar is a very skilled guy and his production makes him an All Star but he's not at a level where he's making post season All NHL teams yet. Doughty has that potential and the Kings must agree because they are willing to pony up 6.8 million to a kid who just started shaving. Seems like an odd time to make a stand. I obviously don't know anything more than the next guy but Lombardi seems to be lacking in people skills a bit and who knows, Doughty could sit out, demand a trade, show up and get hurt........and there goes another season where the Kings thought they were contenders.
ReplyDeleteWhile Doughty would be a loss to sure, the Kings have great depth on the blue line.
ReplyDeleteVoynov, (51 points in Machester) is ready to go, Jake Muzzin has already played well in the NHL and Thomas Hickey is very close.
The Kings would undoubtedly miss Doughty but their situation is far from dire.
With increased goal scoring from Richards, Gagne and Penner, they will still be a force.
I've never been to North Battleford. Never been to Saskatchewan actually.
ReplyDeleteSay it ain't so! One of Canada's finest (and flattest) provinces and you've never seen it! I highly recommend you bring the kids and discover how very little there is to do. ;-)
I suggested a few weeks ago that Lombardi's position was in more jeopardy than Tambo's. This situation is another example.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if now might be time to make an offer sheet. Sure, the Kings match irrespective of the money bid but a one year contract is as much about the arb rights for Doughty (read Mehan) as it is about the cash.
So why stick your nose in this if you are Tambo? Lombardi's behavior this summer isn't cause per se but it does give him the cover to do a favor for Mehan that may be remembered down the road. (At this point I have to concede that I don't know if the Oil have any of Mehan's clients and wouldn't even know where to look for that info, to be honest. Still, the principle seems solid. ) Giving a shot to Lombardi is simply a bonus.
In what other leagues would a guy squabbling over pennies on a $6-7M deal sit unsigned while half the league has cap room to burn?
ReplyDeleteIf it smells like collusion....
There are 12 teams that currently have enough cap space to sign DOughty to an offer sheet of $7M (and Edmonton could only barely do it).
ReplyDeleteAt least 8 of those teams are on a tight budget and will not spend to cap. Two of the remaining four (Ottawa and Edmonton) are likely to be bottom 5 teams and are probably wary about giving up high draft choices. Edmonton also has a bunch of young players that will need second contracts in the next couple years and it's not in their interest to drive up prices or encourage retaliation from LA.
That leaves two teams (St Louis and Minnesota) that are in a good position to offer sheet but haven't. Not sure I see collusion there.
Drew DOUGH-ty
ReplyDeleteIs it really so obvious no one else noticed?
This type of moneygrubbing from such a young player who may/may not become a great player is exactly what's wrong with this stinking "sport".
BarQu - yep, just Saskatchewan and Manitobs and the territories, some day ....
ReplyDeleteDSF - Kings will still be good but with Doughty they're probably a legit contender, without they're a playoff club but not at the same level as Chicago, Vancouver and SJ. (Actually with him they may not even be there).
Marc - guy is a franchise defenceman and he's just a baby still. There are clubs that cannot afford him, sure, but picking him up is an opportunity that some GM surely should pursue. You'd clear the cap space somehow.
antsh - what Bryan Murray calls ants
I love it, antsh. :-)
ReplyDeleteI think collusion is a difficult thing to prove and the draft picks would be dear for a rebuilding team.
I remember baseball's collusion because my all time favorite player (Tim Raines) was involved.
I suspect that teams are loathe to exercise the RFA signing sheet because it works out so poorly for the teams who actually do it. In effect, you might pay UFA dollars with good draft picks thrown in (and earn the spite of many of your 'colleagues' to boot - let's not leave peer pressure out of the equation).
ReplyDeleteDoughty is likely worth it, but the tendency to go back to 'the way it is done' is also likely more than most GMs could overcome. And the ones who could don't have the cap room or budget.
I don't have a hate on for Lombardi (actually think he's a decent GM) but the game of chicken he's playing benefits no one long term.
pedgoo - the stuff you pick up on your shoe while walking
I've never been to North Battleford. Never been to Saskatchewan actually
ReplyDeleteYou are welcome to come and stay anytime. Well, stay with my Dad, that is. I live in Minneapolis now. You'll have fun with Dad though, likely involving shotguns and beer and stories about the good ol' days of junior hockey.
In Doughty's shoes at that salary, I'd take the guaranteed money on a longer term (reduce risk from injury issues) and ask for a trade if I lost passion for the team. It seems to me those requests are granted pretty often.
ReplyDeleteIt also makes it easier for the GM to get better players if winning matters to him.
Right now Doughty seems a bit greedy to me.
A Q&A from an LA radio station.
ReplyDeleteA good primer for a GM with a lot of young talent.
Q: are you upset about this negotiation?
A: No, not upset about it.. This was not unpredictable after the CBA was drafted. This was definitely a possibility.
Q: The CBA now results in players only having 7 years until free agency, this is tough, especially for franchise players
A: That’s one part of it, but this is a little different. This is more about a player with 3 years experience. He compared Drew to Kershaw (makes 550K) and Lincecum, both are franchise players with potential, but baseball doesn’t allow ‘holdouts’, they have to earn their equity. In hockey, a 3 year player can have more leverage than a 5 year player because of arbitration.
Drew is not replacable, one of the finest D man to come out of Canada in 20 years. It’s players perorgative not to show up, and it’s tremendous leverage. So it’s not just the money, but it affects development of young players.
Q: What part of the deal is the holdup? Is it dollars, the price for UFA years?
A: I don't feel it’s fair to put this all out there, but we have spent an enormous amount of time on it. We went hard prior to July 1. Drew is very important, we wanted to get cap in order. Also, young players don’t train as hard if they don’t have a contract, it’s human nature. Both sides have worked really hard on it. July 1st was kind of a deadline, no offer sheets coming, so we filled our holes. This situation is not from lack of effort from either side. Finally, as we looked at it from all angles, we came to “this is it” as we were leading up to camp. We don’t have the creativity we used to, with elevators, options, etc. Confusing, but allowed some creativity. It’s all AAV now.
Q: Are you done negotiating? Is it too strong to say its take-it-or-leave-it on the table?
A: Well, you know what, this isn’t really about Drew right now. When you get to a certain AAV#, that’s what a GM focuses on, his job is to win. Whenever you build with a plan, you know this is a potential situation. That said, with Drew, I don’t care about this whole thing, I’ve said it publically, Drew would play for a 6 pack of beer. That’s the type of kid he is, he hasn’t changed one bit. We have the youngest core in the league right now by far, and I think we can win. We can win now, and we can win down the road. That said, I have to be real careful, when I see a Chicago, what they had to do to the team, and they aren’t going to be the same team. When you look at Drew, fit him within his peer group on the market, then fit him in his peer group on the team. Then you focus on keeping the pieces around him. There’s no doubt Drew wants to win. Once you get to a certain point on a number, you are about allocation. We are a pretty good team, when we get this guy in we will really be special.
con'd.....
ReplyDeleteQ: What about comparables? Stamkos making 7.5M, arguably the best young forward. Are they using that as a comparable vs. Schenn, etc.
A: You know how it is, it’s a reasonable argument on their behalf. Throwing out Meyers and these guys is part of the process, you don't focus on a single player. It's more about the big picture with your team. The difference now post-lockout, what people don’t understand, is you can’t just throw an extra 300K or 400K to a player now. Its huge in a cap system. If you are over and don’t have the space for injury, you just cant go redo a contract like the NFL. It could cost you a 2.5M player who is critical to your team. Have to be careful being the youngest core in the league and a cap team. I Just have to be patient and makes sure the core comes in at a price where I can keep them together.
Q: When was the last time you talked to Don? What was the tone?
A: Last week. It’s been very congenial. You always need a period away, but lines are always open.
Q: Do you consider this a holdout?
A: No, because he doesn’t have a contract. I don’t think its fair to brand Drew as holding out. To me, that’s when a guy has a contract and don’t show up, which I find repulsive.
Q: Have you spoken to Drew?
A: Briefly once. I have a great relationship with this kid, and it's a bump in the road, but it will be stronger than ever when it comes back.
Q: Kopitars name comes up as a comparable that you don’t want it to be more than that. Drew Doughty vs. Kopitar, is that a real issue?
A: I think we are getting a little now into an area I don’t feel comfortable discussing publicly. I can talk generally, but I'm not getting into these types of particulars.
Q: Do you think it gets done before the regular season?
A: I hope so. Again, when you plan something, you can see the pitfalls, and realize this is a possibility. I told the owner this 3 years ago when we are going with young players, unfortunately its not like it was when young players meant a lesser payroll. We’re gonna get through it, hes not going anywhere, we are staying the course, and we are going to keep the core together for a long time. That’s the goal.
Q: You told us this during the Kovalchuk battles, obviously its turned out to be true.
A: Oh yea, if I had that contract he got, Drew would have had an offer sheet two months ago. You are gonna start to see GM’s do this after two years, aka Tavares and Meyers. GM’s are going to try and get ahead early after two years. Makes it harder for the player to look away once he gets security for life. It’s a smart move if you have the right player.
With noting that Jordan Eberle is a Meehan client.
Wouldn't it be 4 first round picks if someone successfully signed him? That is a high price, no collusion necessary.
ReplyDeleteinteresting point by Lombardi on the extra 300 and 400K being tacked onto salaries: that's the new 'death by papercut' when you consider how it affects your final cap number.
ReplyDeleteand it's something I've been saying since back in the days when Lowe started to overpay guys by a little bit here or there and that was in the days when we were living by a budget more than the cap.
basically, you have to find a value contract or three or go on a remarkable drafting run in order to keep the cupboard full.
as for doughty, I think he should give to get.
ReplyDeleteif he wants to protect his first year of FA - which is understandable- then he should come off his annual term.
that is if he's interested in allowing his GM to be able to pay other pieces sufficent prices in order for them to be a contender.